The first time I encountered Faiz online I thought he was an atheist. This is because of the double standards that he uses. For example, he keeps saying that we have no first century manuscripts of the NT. He’s correct, we don’t. No first century book or document has first century manuscripts.
I believe that it’s ridiculous to demand that a document written in the second half of the first century have first century manuscripts. I even said to Faiz:
“The Gospel of John was written in 90 AD. This would give only 10 years to have a first century manuscript which is a ridiculous standard for an ancient document”
Now, I picked 90 AD because this was a date that even a harsh critic of the NT like Bart Ehrman would agree with. I personally am not a fan of Ehrman but Faiz recommends books of his on his website so I thought using him to date the Gospel of John would be acceptable to Faiz. Faiz then says:
“Again, you say this as if it is a fact, when it is actually just a myth. You have no evidence that John wrote the gospel in 90 CE. If it was written in the first century, you would expect at least one mss or even a fragment to show up. But you don’t.”
There it is folks. This is the standard Faiz demands of the NT. If John was written in 90 AD, there has to be a manuscript or fragment within 10 years or else it’s not written in 90 AD. I wonder when he thinks the works of Flavius Josephus were written.
Faiz also shows his double standards when talking about the supposed missing books of the Bible. I pointed out that the Taurat and the Injeel are mythical documents and there is no evidence that they ever existed. On his response to me on the Christine Blasey Ford article, he said the following in a footnote:
And what about the numerous books that are mentioned in the Bible, and yet for which there exists no evidence? Let us see if Ruhl can provide the evidence for these books:
- The Book of the Wars of the Lord
- The Chronicles of the Kings of Israel
- The Annals of King David
- The Book of Nathan the Prophet
- The Sayings of the Seers
First of all, these are books that are merely referenced and quoted in the OT. The fact that they’re referenced at the time of the respective OT writings that quote them shows that they existed. For example, the Book of the Wars of the Lord is referenced in Numbers 21. It says:
That is why the Book of the Wars of the Lord says:
“. . . Zahab in Suphah and the ravines,
the Arnon and the slopes of the ravines
that lead to the settlement of Ar
and lie along the border of Moab.”
The fact that this book is being quoted shows that it existed at the time. Already, this is more evidence than the Taurat or the Injeel which are not referenced until the Quran in the 7th century. We know that the Book of the Wars of the Lord existed in the time of the book of Numbers. No one knew of the Taurat in the time of Moses or the Injeel in the time of Jesus.
Now, do we have these books listed? No we don’t; but why do we need to? The Bible never says that these books are scripture, from God, inspired by God, or have to be followed. The Bible simply quotes the relevant parts needed to make it’s point.
On the other hand, what does the Quran say about the Taurat and the Injeel?
It says that it was revealed by God and Christians and Jews in the time of Muhammad were bound to it, even though there is not a trace of its existence. At least the Biblical Torah knows of the existence of the Book of the Wars of the Lord, though its not scripture and we’re not bound to it. Here’s what the Quran says:
We have revealed the Torah, wherein is guidance and light. The submissive prophets ruled the Jews according to it, so did the rabbis and the scholars, as they were required to protect God’s Book, and were witnesses to it. So do not fear people, but fear Me. And do not sell My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule according to what God revealed are the unbelievers.
Surah 5:44
In their footsteps, We sent Jesus son of Mary, fulfilling the Torah that preceded him; and We gave him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that preceded him, and guidance and counsel for the righteous. So let the people of the Gospel rule according to what God revealed in it. Those who do not rule according to what God revealed are the sinners.
Surah 5:46-47
And most of all, the verse that says Christians and Jews are bound by these fake non-existent documents is Surah 5:68 which reads:
Say, “O People of the Scripture! You have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is revealed to you from your Lord.” But what is revealed to you from your Lord will increase many of them in rebellion and disbelief, so do not be sorry for the disbelieving people.
According to the Quran, I have no basis until I uphold these mythical documents which are the Quranic Torah and Gospel aka the Taurat and the Injeel. These documents never existed and Faiz knows it. On the other hand, it doesn’t matter that we don’t have those other documents because the Bible doesn’t say that we need them. They’re not Scripture or from God. If Faiz thinks they’re scripture, from God, or something that Christians and Jews need to follow, he can simply show us where the Bible or any other Christian document says so.
This is the glorious apologetics of Faiz. I’m done with him.
My response: https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2018/10/27/refuting-allan-ruhl-on-the-missing-books-in-the-bible/