Dr. Yasir Qadhi – Islamic Scholar
I happen to watch quite a few UFC fights. If I were to go back to visit my parents in my hometown, and talk to my mom and she said: “How were the fights yesterday? Didn’t you think the main event was a good fight?” my jaw would simply drop. Obviously I talk with my mom often and I also discuss UFC with some friends. I happen to know that my mom isn’t a fan and if she wanted to discuss the fights, something would seem quite out of place.
I have criticized pointless interfaith dialogue in the past. Notice that I said pointless. Christianity has always done interfaith dialogue and it has traditionally been to convert the other. I can’t stand it when Catholic prelates talk with Jews or Muslims and they do these squishy dialogues that end up nowhere. There is no discussion of the key issues.
I have discussed Dr. James White on this blog before. Recently, I found out that he had an interfaith dialogue with Dr. Yasir Qadhi who is an Islamic apologist. It wasn’t a debate at all. Dr. White would ask basic questions and Dr. Qadhi would just preach Islam to the audience which I believe was in a Protestant Church.
As someone who listens to Dr. White’s podcast, reads his books and watches his debates, this came as a shock. I’m not angry since I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t believe in Calvinism or Islam. I just want to say that I’m confused. You can accuse Dr. White of a lot of things but one thing you can’t accuse the man of is being a liberal. He takes his faith very seriously. Dr. White has debated a lot of Catholic apologists but has never done this with them. He’s never had a friendly dialogue where he gives them a platform to preach Catholicism in a Protestant Church. He’s dealt with Catholic apologists for 30 years, which is a lot longer than he’s been dealing with Islam.
Again, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I am frustrated when Catholic priests and bishops engage in completely pointless and fruitless ecumenical dialogues with Jews or Muslims. As Dr. White knows, liberalism has infected the Catholic Church to the core. I never knew that James White would fall to this same type of liberalism. I’m betting that if you asked him ten years ago if he’d ever engage in the kind of dialogue that he recently did with Dr. Qadhi, he would have said never.
Though I do disagree with Dr. White on many issues, I would like to see him admit that he’s made a mistake. This is for his own good since some of his fellow Calvinist apologists have been condemning him for this dialogue.
The spirit of this age is very powerful. The fact that Dr. White would ever take part in a dialogue like this is shocking. We’re all human though. We need to stay fervent in prayer or the same thing could happen to any of us.
The dialogue can be found here:
http://www.gracemessenger.com/sermons/sermon-containers/2017/christians-and-muslims,-agreements-and-differences.html
That was a good article and well observed. I have often followed the writings and broadcasts of Dr White even though as a Catholic I disagree with some of his opinions. To be fair it is through reading and listening to the works of American evangelicals such as James White and others (in particular William Lane Craig, and also Sam Shamoun and David Wood) that I gained a renewed interest in Scripture and learned a great deal so I certainly appreciate him and his work and for that I am grateful.
Latterly though I have become more aware of Dr White’s tendency to severity against Christians who hold different views from him (especially Roman Catholics), yet I also noticed that things have become rather cosy between him and Muslim apologists.
The last couple of meetings of Dr White have involved warm words and exchange of gifts but what use is that if the Muslims trot out the same falsehoods and fail to make any concession to his points. (What kind of friends are so unreasonable?) He doesn’t let this dishearten him though and this last interfaith dialogue between Dr White and Dr Qadhi was particularly friendly. However it was not a dialogue but a monologue. Dr Qadhi was allowed to dominate the proceeding without even being gently challenged, and the occasion only served as a platform for his views.
There can be no doubt that James White is a fine scholar and a formidable debater, especially when dealing with Islam. I think he is quite brilliant and admire him even though I am not comfortable with his attitude towards Catholics and find that he has a tendency towards severity. However I think his goodwill towards Muslims apologists is misplaced, and they will not respect or reciprocate a supine and conciliatory approach. He seems very anxious not to risk offending them.
Islam is false and Muslims are deceived, and I hope that Dr White remembers that again however much he would like to be friends with his Muslim counterparts.
This is not meant as a criticism because you may not have followed White’s ministry for very long, but he has not changed at all in his ministry to Muslim. In fact, in is very first debate with a Muslim, Shabir Ally, which took place in 2006 at Biola university, he was VERY respectful and cordial. He gave Shabir several of his books as a gift at the end of the debate. And also, White and Shabir have been friends ever since that debate, exchanging emails, ect. They are even writing a book together. He hasn’t changed at all.
No one has criticized White for being friends with Muslims. They criticize him for this modernist(and fruitless) interfaith dialogue in a Protestant Church. There was nothing wrong with the 2006 debate with Shabir Ally. There is nothing wrong with being friends with a Muslim. Also, the book with Ally is actually a debate book(as far as I know) so its not at all what happened with Dr. Qadhi.
Praise the Lord Jesus that you actually see what the real issue is since it seems everyone else is oblivious!
And BTW, thanks to White’s recent DL show I learned the following about myself:
1. I am a prophet.
2. I am a foul mouthed Assyrian who blames my ethnicity for being so (darn you Sennacherib!).
3. I abandoned particular redemption to get back at White.
4. That people fear me which is why they won’t stop attacking White.
5. That I may be considering becoming a Roman Catholic!
6. I CAPITALIZE my words and misspell themS at the same time
Man I am so thankful for White’s psycho-analysis of me since it really helped me see what my issues are. 😉
I too have noticed from watching many of Dr White’s debates that the friendly approach and the exchange of gifts does indeed appear to be of long practice but my point was that it has gone beyond mere politeness (e.g. Shabir Ally and Adnan Rashid). It is certainly not for me to criticise who James White chooses to be friends with but the friendliness cannot really be honest on the part of his Muslim counterparts because as soon as the debates begin it is clear that there are limits to their spirit of give and take: they appear to make no concessions, and they fall back into the same old arguments and misrepresentations, completely ignoring the clear answers and refutations that Dr White has given during that, or previous debates.
James White must be aware of this and of the fact that even after all those debates and exchanges they still don’t understand (or even try to understand) the Christian point of view. Dr White goes to great efforts to appreciate their beliefs but they do not reciprocate. This makes it surprising that he seems to be giving some Muslims an easy ride with the recent “dialogues”, particularly when untruths are declared in a place of Christian worship.
The fact is that Muslim apologists are not really interested in what we have to say, and neither they nor a Muslim audience will change their minds unless they are put on the spot and challenged. Dr White is just the right person to put them on the spot.
I didn’t see what was so objectionable about the dialogue. I honestly think James White got something out of it, or he believed he got something out of it. He had an opportunity to articulate his understanding of the Bible along with his soteriology to Muslims. I really think there are immense similarities between orthodox Sunni theology and Reformed soteriology. I feel a little disillusioned that all of the Muslims that I know personally do not have any knowledge of the Pauline epistles, and if I were to make a contribution to da’wah, it would be the rehabilitation the perception of the Apostle among Muslims since the Apostle seems to be a good monergist (and the Deuteropauline epistle, Ephesians, illustrates this even more clear).
[I didn’t yet hear the dialogue, but I asked a sheik who visits our campus every Wednesdays on whether he knew White, and he cited this dialogue.]
Muslims typically do not buy liberalism, holus bolus, even among the more “liberal” MSAers that I know. They are not likely to agree with “gender identitarianism” or whatever zeitgeist there is. I suppose White realizes that Islam shares some conservative values and has a rich and dignified intellectual tradition (one that I would extol over the Thomistic tradition of Catholicism), and that can be a point of mutual respect.
Muslims really do love White. I cannot help but be a fan and occasional listener of the Dividing Line (and some of his past shows).
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I think a fairly liberal Muslim would have little problem debating the type of Catholic who really likes Dorothy Day or Oscar Romero. I actually liked them when I was a Catholic, more than any Pope or theologian, perhaps with the exception of Monica and Augustine. But I do not think there would be much theology discussed in that context.
That type of interaction would at least demonstrate to a subset of Catholics and Christians that some Muslims have an appreciation of some Catholic figures. I don’t think tu quoque about the Crusades and the expulsion of the Moores from Andalusia would be a part of that dialogue.
Hi Latias,
I want to say that I think this is a minor offence by White. I’ve written elsewhere that I think that those who were attacking him were being way too harsh.
“ I feel a little disillusioned that all of the Muslims that I know personally do not have any knowledge of the Pauline epistles, and if I were to make a contribution to da’wah, it would be the rehabilitation the perception of the Apostle among Muslims since the Apostle seems to be a good monergist (and the Deuteropauline epistle, Ephesians, illustrates this even more clear).”
I wish you the best of luck in this but for the last 50 years of modern Islamic apologetics, St. Paul has been talked about in the most negative ways. I don’t know if you’d be able to overcome that.
“White realizes that Islam shares some conservative values and has a rich and dignified intellectual tradition (one that I would extol over the Thomistic tradition of Catholicism), and that can be a point of mutual respect.”
Islam does share many traditional conservative values. I’ve often said on this blog and in my personal life that I have more in common with a devout Muslim than I do with a Western secular liberal. I have far more hope for the Muslim than I do for Canadian or American leftists. I’d also like to hear why you think the Islamic intellectual tradition is superior to Thomism.
God Bless,
Allan
“I didn’t see what was so objectionable about the dialogue.”
Hmm. As stated earlier in this series of comments, it was not a dialogue but a monologue and Dr Qadhi was allowed to dominate proceedings unchallenged. This venue should not have provided a pulpit for his views – they needed to be held to account.
Muslims have been let off very lightly on occasions such as these, and allowed to dodge important issues. Muslims do this all the time. Islam is intellectually bankrupt and logically inconsistent, it should be given a much tougher time and held to account.
Patrick Walsh, are you a Roman Catholic? And would you give me permission to post this on my FB pages?
Yes Sam, I am a Roman Catholic.
I don’t think that the points I made are harsh or unfair on Dr White so I am happy for you to refer to them on Facebook as long as you include the parts where I express the high regard in which I hold him. I have gained a lot from listening to you and reading your work, so I am more than happy to oblige.
(By the way, I should point out that I post things on the internet using this pseudonuym. I hope this isn’t a problem.)
This is truly appalling. Dr White actually helped to advance dialogue between Muslims and Christians as well as increase understanding of the respective positions. He and Dr Qadhi should be commended – I can honestly say this initiative dialogue between Muslim and Christian theologians is going to improve the situation between Muslims and Christians immeasurably and it will have long reaching benefits.
NO side lost “face” in this dialogue. I really don’t understand those criticising Dr White. I want to understand them and they can post their reservations here but if it is just that Dr White didn’t try to “refute” everything Dr Qadhi said then that’s because it was a dialogue (NOT a debate) and each speaker was trying to promote understanding of their theology.
I really hope this can be a regular thing – both these two theologians get on. Muslims and Christians NEED to see this.
One thing you’ll notice is these people up in arms at Dr White have probably never said a peep about gay marriage, female clergy and other encroachments of secularism into their churches but all of a sudden a Muslim theologian is invited into a church there’s uproar.
I understand most people are more mature in their thought pattern and recognise the importance of Dr Qadhi’s dialogue with Dr White. Well done to both of them.
I’m more shocked than angry. There isn’t a lot of anger in my post, only confusion. Should he have done that? No. However, if I were personal friends with Dr. White, I wouldn’t end things because of this debate. White needs to be confronted privately and told that he’s wrong. You can hope that this is a regular thing but I’ll take a good debate other this hands down.
You said:
“One thing you’ll notice is these people up in arms at Dr White have probably never said a peep about gay marriage, female clergy and other encroachments of secularism into their churches but all of a sudden a Muslim theologian is invited into a church there’s uproar.”
Yahya, you need to read my blog. I’m highly critical of Modernism in the Church. This blog is a testament to the fact that I tackle modernism in the Church head on. I should also say that those who are criticizing White are conservative Calvinists. They don’t have stuff like that in their churches. I don’t think your statement is accurate.
Allan, thanks for your response and your explanation of the angle your coming at this from.
I would say not all Christians are looking at this the same way as you.
Thanks.