St. John of Damascus
When Christians and Muslims debate, Muslims are pretty good at framing the debate. It seems like the vast majority of the time, the topic is either neutral or the Christians are on the defensive. Hardly ever is the Islamic position attacked.
In how many debates have Christians had to defend the deity of Christ or the Trinity? In how many debates have Muslims had to defend the doctrine of Tawheed? I don’t think they ever have. The closest was the neutral debate on Tawheed vs. Trinity. Both doctrines were on the chopping block. I can’t think of a single debate where Muslims have had to defend Tawheed. To my knowledge, Anthony Rogers tried to arrange one once but his opponent didn’t want it.
Anyways, we’re usually on the defensive. However, I’ve noticed that David Wood is trying to turn that around. Many may question the tactics of his mockumentary “Islamicize Me” but he’s at least trying to go after Muhammad. He’s trying to show Muslims that they shouldn’t follow this man as a prophet since he did a bunch of ridiculous things.
More recently, David Wood has been doing livestreams with Sam Shamoun and Anthony Rogers, and talking about sticky Islamic points. First, he and Anthony Rogers have been exposing the fact that Allah has a physical body with very real body parts. Recently with Sam Shamoun, they’ve discussed the fact that Allah prays.
Muslims haven’t really responded to the fact that Allah has body parts. Their scholars seem to just admit this without acknowledging the clear pagan implications. In terms of Allah praying, this is shaking the world of Islamic apologetics. Ijaz Ahmed just went down in flames at speakers corner while trying to defend the Quranic verse that shows Allah praying.
Traditionally I’ve taken the approach of defending Christian doctrine. My apologetics have been defensive. The only times that I go on the offensive is when I engage in counter-apologetics. I make Muslims defend their prophet’s utter collapse on the doctrine of the Trinity before they can criticize the Christian doctrine.
There are two key issues with Christian vs. Islamic apologetics. One is that Christianity is true and the other fact is that Islam is false. They’re related but they’re two separate points. Even if I’m giving a good defence for the deity of Christ or the fact that Jesus died on the cross, they might fall back on the fact that they’re so convinced that Muhammad is a prophet and that the Quran is the unaltered word of Allah so any defense on my part is almost a wasted effort. Islam needs to be torn down.
My knowledge of the Quran has grown about ten times last year. It’s truly been a blessing. Even in the last two months, I’ve expanded my attack on the Quran. The next step will be investigating the life of Muhammad. That’s the next tool in my arsenal and it’ll only help all the more. As apologists, we desperately need to turn the tables.
In Jeremiah 10:11, we read:
“Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’”
It’s time to turn the tables and add Allah to the list of the deities who will perish. It’s not enough just to defend our doctrines.
It has to be demonstrated that Allah is not the True God. The kindest interpretation is that Muslims have an inaccurate concept of God, but that is insufficient.
Unfortunately the media and politicians and even the Catholic Church do not recognise that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. If we can sort out this out then it may become more obvious how wrong or misguided Mohammed was, and how his followers are deceived.
I’m quite satisfied that David and Sam exposed Ijaz Ahmad’s deceptive tactics and incompetence. At the end of their discussion the only thing left of this weasel was a frayed pelt. Sam was right though, we should pray for the poor dawamonger, so he may find the way to the Truth.
May God help us all.
Muslims don’t know what to do with Allah praying. They’re like deers caught in the headlights. I bet they wish they had the Trinity now!
I am a little shocked that this site would feature comments on the Allah praying argument. I watched the debate with Maronite Christian friend whose first language is arabic. He said the argument is embarrassing for anyone familiar with basics of arabic grammar. Dont believe me? Ask Arab Christians and have them explain why. For non Arab speakers like D. Wood it was fatal.
I am going to look into that verse with Arabic speakers. I know Christian, Muslim, and atheist Arabic speakers so I’ll be asking all of them.
Perhaps you should have been asking them before making claims about a language which you aren’t familiar with. Oh well….
It’s just that in all the dialogues, the Muslims seem to concede this. Mohammed Hijab and Ijaz Ahmad are the two most recent examples.
Hatun Tash is a speaker of Arabic. So much so that Hijab’s only red herring is to accuse her of having poor ENGLISH instead!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyI4zzjBPqo&feature=youtu.be
I don’t know the Ijaz guy but I have not seen Hijab concede anything of the like. He differentiates the difference between “yo salli ala” and the word “salaat” in the debate and why they mean different things. I thought it was clear. Perhaps I missed something as I am not up to date on his speeches.
Hatun on the other hand is not Arabic nor does she speak the language. Wonder why someone would think so? Her name is Turkish as is her accent.
He concedes in this video that Allah prays. The only difference is that it was between FOR and TO.
–I have not seen Hijab concede anything of the like. He differentiates the difference between “yo salli ala” and the word “salaat” in the debate and why they mean different things. I thought it was clear.–
Yes, Hijab was very cunning (or should I say, makr like his deity Allah in Sura 3:54 & Sura 7:99).
He misdirected the audience’s attention with a strawman & red herring: “Haha! David Wood says Allah prays TO Muhammad. Silly man who doesn’t know Arabic, the verse says Allah prays FOR Muhammad! Free Arabic lesson! Applause please.”
And none of them stopped to ponder about the massive problems caused by Allah praying.
Never mind to or for.
Praying.
Perhaps you can see the problem now. As long as the root Saad, Laam, Waw (Yeh) is there, that means Allah does prayer.
Who does Allah pray to? Who does Allah call upon? What greater being does Allah need help from? Why even need to pray, can’t Allah do everything just by saying it, kun faya kun?
Neither can Allah be praying to himself as the only deity, since Allah is Tawhid = absolutely on. Not Trinitarian like Christians believe about YHWH, where The Son can pray to The Father without it being schizophrenia.
Do you see why Hijab ran from the ‘Turkish, non-Arabic speaker’ Hatun Tash now? There is no easy way for him to answer without destroying Islam, teh faith of Muslims, and (most important to him, IMHO) his own status as a popular apologist.
So you are now aware that Hatun is not an Arab speaker? Interesting that you make a claim and then when shown otherwise you just move on. Have you seen videos of Haun at speakers corner? She is no help to the Christian cause.
In terms of the arabic the meaning is not prayer. Arab Christians a lot more knowledgeable than D Wood didn’t use this argument in the past and it is bordering on embarrassment to see it brought forward. In essence your trying to describe how a clock works yet you don’t know how to tell time yet. Perhaps a little more humility is in order for both Christians and muslims when discussing the divine.
#So you are now aware that Hatun is not an Arab speaker? Interesting that you make a claim and then when shown otherwise you just move on.#
I was under the wrong impression that she knew Arabic. Then I recently watched a video where it is clear that she is not a native speaker of Arabic.
I therefore admit that I had the wrong assumption. You are correct in this case. I am no stranger to being wrong and admitting it, if evidence or a good argument is presented.
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#Have you seen videos of Haun at speakers corner? She is no help to the Christian cause.#
I have learnt over the years that if someone keeps being derided as ineffective or a bad representative by her opponents, that speaker is actually being very effective! That is why they keep saying she is useless, to try and get her to stop her effective ministry.
I did watch how Hatun refused to back down against her opponents or let them twist the argument with misdirection. Plus, she is a WOMAN! A small sized woman. It must be extremely humiliating for big, tough Dawa guys to lose to, and run from, a woman. That makes her EXTRA effective.
By contrast, the more that one of our speakers is praised by their opponents, the more I feel that they view him as harmless and ineffective. That is why they wish all other apologists were like him! How many times have we heard the phrase “Hey David Wood, you should be more like James White.” from Muslims?
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#In terms of the arabic the meaning is not prayer. Arab Christians a lot more knowledgeable than D Wood didn’t use this argument in the past and it is bordering on embarrassment to see it brought forward.#
This is a poor canard.
In every single verse where salat or a variation of it is found in the Quran, it means PRAY.
The only times where translators or Muslim apologists do not say it means PRAY is when the verse says Allah does Salat.
It does not mean bless (baraka) or mercy (rahmat) which many translators use to try and hide the fact that Allah prays, as there are verses in the Quran, Hadith, Islamic commentaries and the five daily prayers (As-sala ‘ala-n-Nabiyy / Darud) where the words salat, baraka and rahmat appear together.
M.Hijab even admitted so when he said during the debate that “It is not PRAYS to Muhammad, it is PRAYS for!” and then later said that Salat means Doa.
In fact, it is not just the many verses in the Quran and Hadith that show Allah prays which hint that Allah either has a higher deity, or is not Tawhid, or is schizophrenic:
And in anything over which you disagree – its ruling is to Allah. That is Allah, my Lord; upon Him I have relied, and to Him I turn back. – Sura 42:10
So flee to Allah. Indeed, I am to you from Him a clear warner. – Sura 51:50
So I swear by the Lord of risings and settings that indeed We are able – Sura 70:30
QUESTIONS:
How is Allah his own lord that he relies on and turns back to?
Who is Allah’s boss that sends Allah as a warner?
Who is Allah’s lord that he swears by?
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NOTES TO ALLAN:
Sura 42:10 sounds like the Old Testament passages where YHWH speaks of YHWH as a separate person:
Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of YHWH, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, O Satan!- Zechariah 3:1-2
Sura 51:50 is very interesting to a Trinitarian who knows the Old Testament hints of multipersonality:
For thus said YHWH tsaba, after his glory sent me to the nations who plundered you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye: “Behold, I will shake my hand over them, and they shall become plunder for those who served them. Then you will know that YHWH tsaba has sent me. Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for behold, I come and I will dwell in your midst, declares YHWH. – Zechariah 2:8-10
YHWH says He will be sent by YHWH to dwell in our midst.
But of course, we are Trinitarians but Muslims are Tawhid Unitarians!
Allan, in fact further to the last part of my previous comment…
Look at how Allah switches between the singular and plural:
No! Indeed, We have created them from that which they know. So I swear by the Lord of risings and settings that indeed We are able – Sura 70:29-30
Doesn’t this sound exactly like how our Triune God is described, using a mixture of singular and plural?
https://twitter.com/BibleHats/status/1027715572165828609
https://twitter.com/BibleHats/status/1023935693096009728
And passages where more than one person is referred to singularly, as if they are one being:
The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life long to this day, the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless [singular verb] the boys – Genesis 48:15-16
Now may our God and Father himself, and our Lord Jesus, direct [singular verb] our way to you, and may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, as we do for you, so that he may establish [singular verb] your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints. – 1 Thessalonians 3:11-13
Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort [singular verb] your hearts and establish [singular verb] them in every good work and word. – 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him [singular pronoun]. They will see his [singular possessive determiner] face, and his [singular possessive determiner] name will be on their foreheads. – Revelation 22:3-4
Either Allah is not absolutely one, Tawhid, Unitarian… Or Muhammad plagiarized the style of the Old Testament without comprehending why these uniplurality passages are phrased that way.